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 outlawsmithy
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 posted on 10-23-2002 at 07:35 PM
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Is anyone interested in machining?
Looks like the only people thatare interested in machining are Spoke & myself.
Anyone else interested?
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 Lightning Rc
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posted on 10-23-2002 at 07:41 PM
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I am very but ,have limited time and considered getting a good milling machine and lathe but there just so expensive
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4x4
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posted on 10-24-2002 at 01:53 AM
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thingking about it
are smity conbo mech worth the cost harbour frieght tools and enco have some which one would any body sugest.
U.S.A.
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outlawsmithy
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posted on 10-24-2002 at 03:42 AM
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Smithy's are fine machines, but not from Enco and damn sure not from Harbor Freight! By the time you get it from Harbor Freight, the warrantee will
have expired! The one that Enco has is an older unit and it doesn't look like it has powerfeeds. Couldn't find the one at Harbor Freight.
It's always been my policy to go to the source, Smithy. http://www.smithy.com/ As far as
the machines go, don't put too much faith in the prices that are there. You call them and they'll give you a good price. Shipping for one of these
puppies is $200 and it's shipped by Roadway I think, to a terminal closest to you. Then, you go and pick it up, (they'll load it into your truck).
Also, if you buy from Smithy, they'll include $500 worth of tooling to get you started. For what they charge, it's not a bad deal!
Steven, do a search for used machinery. Generally, you can find a used machinery shop in your state somewhere. Only thing is, some of these machines
might be BIG or older and may not come with any tooling or accessories, and you can get them at a good price. Then you hafta consider the amount of
room that you have; lotta times a combo unit would be benificial. If I had the room, I would have gotten separate units.
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Big Wig
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posted on 10-24-2002 at 11:57 AM
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If you have the room, try to buy a seperate knee mill and a small bench lathe. These can be had for cheap prices and even a worn out mill will easily
outperform a Smithy. No offense to Smithy owners, they work very well. When I first started my shop I bought and old Hartford knee mill, a nice Yuasa
indexing head, a very nice Yuasa rotary table, a spin fixture, an X, Y table with rotary, a big box of end mills and a bunch of collets for $1000.
Then I bought a Logan bench lathe with a collet closer, tons of collets including a bunch of soft step collets, a 3 jaw chuck, 4 jaw chuck, drill
chuck, live center and a quick change tool post for $250. I paid $200 for a 5hp phase converter and $200 for rigging.
For $1650 I got a bunch of stuff and I was up and running. With all that old equipment I could have made all the RC stuff I wanted if I was into it
back then 
The guy I sold that lathe to is still running it and I still use the Hartford almost every day.
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Big Wig
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posted on 10-24-2002 at 04:35 PM
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here's what I make my RC stuff with now
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SGT_EK4
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posted on 10-24-2002 at 05:05 PM
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DAMN!
CNC? Thats a pretty serious machine!
Now you can mass produce custom discount parts for us. 
I did a little CAM in college, but nothing related to R/C's, just simple stuff like Yo-Yo's and Chess pieces. I remember to this date, when I was
programming the damn thing for a Yo-Yo, it took like 300 farking lines of code. I hear now it can be done with much less, if even any with the right
software.
"As funny as a one legged cat trying to bury it's S@!t on a frozen pond"
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outlawsmithy
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posted on 10-24-2002 at 05:38 PM
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Big Wig, why don't you just compare a Smithy to an all-out Bridgeport? A Smithy is a very accurate machine and granted, combo units do have their
drawbacks, such as work size limitations. Whatever you can do on a Hartford, I can do on a Smithy, size permitting, and be just as accurate. Set-up
might take a little longer, but, it's a hobby, not a vocation. You're the first & only person I've ever heard put down a Smithy. There are some on
other forums that have a lesser Smithy than I do and they make mechanisms for pistols & rifles, both require a high degree of accuracy. So, please
don't put someone else's machine down cuz you work/worked in a machine shop.
Sgt, most parts for RC's ARE simple stuff, mostly flat, some with curvature & texture of a type and some are complex. Now, if you did a Yo-Yo on
Cad/Cam, you should be able to do RC parts as well. Compared to some RC parts, a Yo-Yo IS complex!
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SGT_EK4
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posted on 10-24-2002 at 05:48 PM
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It's been quite a few years since I have touched CAM equipment, so I'm not really sure what is involved with today's modern rigs.
I'm not sure what it compares to today, but the one I was using was Oarnge, about 15ft square, and had a large Lexan cage around the table,--- and
had to be programmed from a remote desktop.
The part that always got me screwed up was when I had to program outside the third Axis. I really couldn't "grab the concept. 
P.S.- My Yo-Yo's turned out like shit. I made them out of Delrin and set the feed speed way too high. There was flying plastic EVERYWHERE!
*/Hit The Deck!
"As funny as a one legged cat trying to bury it's S@!t on a frozen pond"
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Big Wig
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posted on 10-24-2002 at 06:57 PM
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outlawsmithy,
Where in my post did I "put down" a Smithy? I said a full size knee mill will "outperform" a Smithy. I said that because it will
outperform a Smithy. I have been a machinist all my life. I don't "work in" a shop, I own a shop... and for a one-man shop I have
been quite successful at it. For several years I was also a machine tool technician and I've repaired and upgraded lots of different types of
machinery... including 2 - 4 axis mill and lathe CNC retrofits. I have a pretty good idea what makes a machine a "good machine".
There is nothing wrong with a Smithy and yes, you can make anything on your Smithy that I can make on my Hartford. But, I can throw a 1" diameter
endmill in my Hartford and take a massive bite out of a hunk of aluminum.... can you? If a person has the room for some "full size" machinery and
they want to get into machining, there is nothing wrong with my suggestion.
I am sorry for getting defensive but it seems you did the same. Art you trying to tell me that my opinions aren't welcomed here? Machining isn't a
"hobby" to me so I usually stay out of this forum... maybe that's what I should keep doing. The reason I always stayed out of here is I
never want to come across with the attitude that what I say is gospel. I'm not like that at all but when I open with "I own a
shop" folks might think I feel that way. I have opinions like everyone else: I don't like HPI, I hate "sport" motors and the RC10 GT is the
greatest RC car ever made . Am I supposed to lie? Sharing ideas and
opinions is what makes these forums fun to me.
regards
Jay
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Dirt Dummy
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posted on 10-24-2002 at 10:20 PM
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No offense to Smithy owners, they work very well  That does not
sound like a put down to me! Big wig your advice is always welcome here.
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MidMadn
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posted on 10-24-2002 at 10:48 PM
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Well, if anyone wants my take on the situation. -
Outlawsmitty,
I personally feel that you owe Big Wig an apology. In no way did he put down your smitty. He just said if you can fit larger seperates, that is the
way to go. I agree with his post 100%.
Jack
P.S. I have been in BigWigs shop.  He's not pulling your leg.
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4x4
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 posted on 10-25-2002 at 12:58 AM
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Big Wig one hell of a big tool you got there!
Don't mind what has been said you know how touchy some people get when you start talking about who's tool is bigger.
show what your made out of
[Edited on 10-25-2002 by 4x4]
U.S.A.
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MidMadn
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posted on 10-25-2002 at 04:06 AM
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Sorry to all that had a post in here below these that is now missing.
I didn't delete them. They were the only ones lost in the move. I assume because they were so new. My hosting provider had already grabbed the forums
database before they were posted.
Jack
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outlawsmithy
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posted on 10-25-2002 at 04:20 AM
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I had no intent to reply, but, I guess everyone has to jump on board and put their 2 cents in.
re: ".....even a worn out mill will easily outperform a Smithy." Now, if that isn't a put down, then I don't know what is., cuz it just ain't
so!!
And whether your machine can take a 1" cutter and mine can't, has no bearing on anything, except one-up-manship.
I didn't come to this forum to put down other people's machines or machinery or to have mine put down. I came here to "give a little, take a
little."
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MidMadn
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posted on 10-25-2002 at 04:26 AM
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So, How have you been RC Jack?
Nobody put you or your machine down. Someone just expressed an opinion that they thought it was a good or better option to get separate larger
machines than one small do it all machine.
You twist it all around and make a big stink out of nothing.
If you don't know the advantages of a 1" shanked mill bit compared to say a 1/4" shank, then you should ask. If BigWig doesn't have the time to
fill you in, I will. And it has nothing to do with one upmanship.
Jack
P.S. When you register under another name, try to refrain from posting so we won't know it's you.
[Edited on 10-25-2002 by midmadn]
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Big Wig
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posted on 10-25-2002 at 12:41 PM
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| Quote: | | re:
".....even a worn out mill will easily outperform a Smithy." Now, if that isn't a put down, then I don't know what is., cuz it just ain't
so!! |
that's not a put-down, it's the truth. I never said a Smithy wasn't a good machine... I just said that a worn out, full size knee mill WILL
outperform it. That is a fact. With my Hartford I can take bigger faster cuts all day long. I can easily be twice as productive with
my seperate mill and lathe (and that's being generous on my part) than you can with your Smithy. Being productive isn't really very important to
many folks who get into machining for hobby reasons so take that for what it's worth. I was just giving another option... there are other machines
besides the Smithy you know - and I've run a lot of them. Just relax and don't be so sensitive man! My intention was never to put
you down! You can rip on my machines all you want and I'll never care... just don't talk about my GT!!! j/k
| Quote: | | And
whether your machine can take a 1" cutter and mine can't, has no bearing on anything, except one-up-manship. |
c'mon, you can't be serious. It has a lot to do with how efficeintly you can remove material. If you have a lot of material to hog out of the way,
the bigger the cut you can take, the better... simple as that. Plus, if you have a deep cut to make, it's harder to pull it off with a 1/4 e'mill
2" long than a 3/4 e'mill 2" long... rigidity is key. A rigid e'mill shank is important and rigid way surfaces are what you
really need
If someone only has room for a Smithy, they will have fun with it and it will do whatever they need it to do. If someone has the space and wants to
take things to the next level, I can probably be of some help.
regards
Jay
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Lightning Rc
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posted on 10-26-2002 at 09:09 PM
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Jim
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posted on 10-27-2002 at 12:15 AM
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I can probably be of some help. Big Wig Im looking at spending about $21000.00 on a mill. What kind of help can you offer?
PS.... Cent....some thing.CNC..Damn forgot the name
[Edited on 10-27-2002 by Jim]
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Big Wig
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posted on 10-27-2002 at 01:55 AM
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Jim,
What do you plan to do with this machine? Work for industrial clients or hobby related work? For that kind of dough, you have lots of choices. Give me
an idea of the size/type work you will be doing and I might have some suggestions.
That's pretty serious cabbage you plan to spend... been at it for awhile already?
regards
Jay
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Jim
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posted on 10-27-2002 at 07:06 AM
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Hey B Wig, I just plan to play with it. No really im not braggin but
thats pocket change every year I save up about 30 to 50K just to have some new year spending cash. I forget the name of the mill machine bad memory but any ways its not a toy nore junk. Im going to make what ever
I want for my self and use it to make money. hey Big Wig you know how it is with a good CNC and a good lathe {What can't you make}Im sick of buyen
junk, shit Ill make my own quality products. You ask size/type, what ever comes my way=Tools, parts for autos, tractors, hobbies, you name it. Im
retired so I have plenty of time on my hands. Ive been working with metals for quite some time now and love it I use to do chroming but thats not as
big as anodizing which I want to get set up. Chroming was just a lot of work and people didnt want to pay so the hell with them. Anodizing is easyer
work and you see it every where.
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Jim
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posted on 10-27-2002 at 07:20 AM
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One more thing Big Wig, Im also looking at a machine that uses high pressure water to cut through metals. Its used but good cond. the guy was showing
me how it worked cutting through 1/4 inch stainless steel like it was butter. Puts my plasma cutter to shame .....
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Big Wig
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posted on 10-27-2002 at 02:28 PM
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Well Jim, there are many ways you can go... I'm not sure exactly what you may have looked at but if I were you, I'd consider a good quality knee
mill retrofit. I have built around 50 of these myself in all different configurations and they are probably the most versatile type of mahine out
there. It won't be as productive as a vertical machining center but you'll be able to swing the turret, slide the ram, tilt the head all over the
place... you see what I mean.
I have a 2 axis retrofit with an Anilam 3200 control and I love it. The control is very powerful and there is no need for any Cad Cam software. The
programming is fully conversational and ther are many canned cycles. It has a geometry calculator as well that is very handy. If you
prefer to generate you programs on a Cad Cam system, it's quite easy to post a G code program and use the 3200's built in G code coverter to input
the data. There's so much more I could say about this piece of equipment... feel free to email me and we can talk further.
There are many other options as well. email me
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Lightning Rc
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posted on 10-28-2002 at 08:28 AM
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I wish I had loads of money
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cmracing
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 posted on 10-30-2002 at 01:30 AM
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Ok guys, so you don't like my Dremel/Hack Saw/Bench Vise/File/Drill/ BFG machine shop then do you! Well, if I had your money and you machining skills
maybe I would buy a CNC machine! Let me ask all of you something: If
you want to take a typical part, say an A-Arm, and make it from aluminum, how do you go about it? Do any of your machines have a way to "trace" the
original A-Arm to get the dimensions into your machines? Or do you manually have to do it all? I honestly have no clue and would just like to
know................
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